Lawmaker Seeks to Repeal 'Stand Your Ground' Law
State legislator introduces change to SC's Stand Your Ground law In the wake of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin's death.
The killing of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old unarmed teenager in Sanford, Fla., has moved state Rep. Bakari Sellers, D-Bamberg, to introduce legislation calling for the repeal of the South Carolina's Stand Your Ground law.
On Feb. 26, Martin, carrying a drink and a bag of Skittles while walking to the house of his father’s fiancée in Sanford, was shot by neighborhood watch member, George Zimmerman.
Zimmerman reportedly told police he shot Martin in self-defense, making his actions protected under Florida's Stand Your Ground law. He has not been charged.
Under that law, which was adopted in 2005, Florida residents can use deadly force — regardless of their location — against a someone if he or she believes there is imminent danger and does not have to retreat.
In section 776.012 of the Florida State Statutes:
" a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony"
On Thursday, Sellers announced on his Twitter account that he had introduced legislation to repeal the South Carolina's Stand Your Ground law.
In Section 16-11-440 of the "Protection of Persons and Property Act" it reads:
"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60."
Sellers is seeking to repeal that portion.
"It could be me walking up to you with a sweet tea and skittles as young Trayvon was, maybe with a hoodie on, and you feel threatened -- you can't just shoot me," Sellers said in a WLTX report. "You have to do everything you can to retreat, you can't actually chase me down and kill me."
The legislation does not change the state's Castle Doctrine, which deals with one's protection of his or her home.
Shireese Bell
3:57 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
What do you think about repealing the "Stand Your Ground" Law? Are you a CWP holder?
Commonsense1sc
4:46 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
I believe the Law needs to say in effect. It's time to take responsibility for your actions. If someone uses deadly force then they need to make sure that they can justify their action. I am a retired military policeman/investigator that finished applying for my CWPO permit and should be receiving it in a few weeks. Why punish EVERYONE for someone elses mistake. I should not have to run from a place where I/We are lawfully at.
reg
1:38 am on Wednesday, March 28, 2012
What does a concealed weapon permit have to do with Stand Your Ground? We had CWPs for a very loooooooooooong time w/o SYG, and CWP had nothing to do with this circumstance in question. CWP rights are not at all at risk if SYG is repealed, either.
Greg
11:08 am on Saturday, March 31, 2012
Human Beings Are Not Big Game. Licensed To Kill is more suited for the title of this Law. It Must Be Repealed.
stanley seigler
4:45 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
repealo it now...should have never been passed...further;
except when associated with hunting or target pratice...private citizens should not be allowed to carry firearms...
in the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms, except in special circumstances.
not a CWP holder...
Commonsense1sc
4:35 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
Well, we are not in the United Kingdom, if you like their Law you need to lived there. As a citizen I have the right to protect myself and my family!!! I should not and WILL NOT retreat from a place where I/WE have a right to be and to protect myself if need be. If deadly force is necessary to protect me and my family, deadly force it will be! I will not have my family murdered because some drunk/drug addict wants our money for their pleasure and kill us in the process!!!
stanley seigler
6:45 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
@Commonsense1sc: "...if you like their Law you need to lived there [UK]
as mentioned to super dave: why does the racist comment to the blacks, "if you dont like it (jim crow etc) here go back to africa", come to mind...guess because it's such a brilliant argument.
re: I [Commonsense1sc] have the right to protect myself and my family!!!
indeed you do as do we all. as mentioned to richard bivens:
you (all) had these rights before the Stand Your Ground (SYG)law...the law only confuses and allows some (perhaps like zimmerman) to get away with murder...
w/o the law zimmerman would be in jail now awaiting trial...ie, zimmerman now has a law to back his position...
say, if someone wanted to kill your son (assuming you have one) or a black kid...he can just say the kid threatened me with a bag of skittles...and he's not even arrested.
laws existing pre "Stand Your Ground" provided the right to defend one's self and family (it's called self defense)...it's almost an inalienable right...and;
a jury decides if it was murder, self defense, whatever...it's been the way for quite a long time...and has worked reasonable well.
stanley seigler
2:30 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
PS
worked reasonable well for white folks...not black folks...so very difficult to understand.
Super Dave
5:05 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
leave it alone..
If Stanley Seigler thinks that citizens should not be allowed to carry a firearm,
then please go to the U.K...
The ONLY reason the Japanese did not invade the USA back in WW2, was almost every house hold was armed... FACT...
It is about time the criminals have something to fear..
It is a shame that Trayvon Martin was killed, but I would like to hear the whole story..
not a CWP holder
William Steve Brodie
9:39 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
The Japanese did in fact invade the USA. They took possesion of two of the Aleutian Islands until forced to leave at least a year later. Dismissing the death of an unarmed youth so flippantly says an awful lot about your character.
commonsense1sc
8:27 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
Super Dave, I totally agree with you. Like I said in a previous comment. The person who is properly trained with a background check should be able carry a gun for their protection of his/her family. It is a shame that someone over stepped his bounds now a precious life has been lost ( We still need to hear ALL the evidence) since we are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Justice will be served once everything comes out but, punishing everyone for the wrong doing of on e doesn't justify punishing all. In South Carolina we are trained and taought that you do not chase someone, that is for Law Enforcement.
stanley seigler
5:52 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
@Super Dave: "...then please go to the U.K..."
why does the racist comment to the blacks, "if you dont like it (jim crow etc) here go back to africa", come to mind.
re: The ONLY reason the Japanese did not invade the USA back in WW2, was almost every house hold was armed...
do you also still believe in santa clause, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and the flat earth...BTW do you live on the plant earth...
FACT...It is about time the criminals have something to fear...
but NOT/never about time citizens...(especially black americans) have to fear gun "toten", quick draw, racist, cowboys...
re: I would like to hear the whole story...
me too...but NOT from the CYA local racist police...lets hear it from the FBI and US DOJ...tho the stupidity of this shameful act is painfully obvious.
indeed it is more than sad...it is at the least a travesty of justice...and as all know if a black man had shot a white boy he would be in jail now...and only a short time ago he would have taken from the jail and lynched...
thought we had gotten past Southern trees bearing strange fruit...Blood on the leaves...Blood at the root...Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze...(thank you lady D)
this murder of a young black is a throw back to a past we should never forget to ensure it is STOPPED NOW.
Bill Allen
5:54 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
I haven't heard the guy who shot him's story, there is so much PR about the young man but none about the shooter? Don't you think we should hear both sides before passing judgement?
stanley seigler
6:59 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
@Bill Allen: "Don't you think we should hear both sides before passing judgement?"
"probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest"...is there any doubt there was probable cause...shooter should be in jail and both sides should be heard by a jury...but;
as a child of my beloved South...i know racist motivated acts when i see them...and know racist CYA acts of local police.
Carolyn Farr Smith
6:42 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
A rally is set for 3 p.m. Saturday, March 24 at Cleveland Park in Greenville. It is being called a Rally for Justice for Trayvon Martin. Residents are encouraged to bring their voice, signs or picture of Trayvon and a bag of Skittles candy.
jose a jimminnes
9:34 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
so why was the kid punching the "shooter"? how did he get that close or why did he attack ? what about the "kids" criminal record? numerous arrests for violence at school and larceny/B&E , how do we know he was not out scouting the hood ? lets face it the kid was not an angle and the shooter was overly dedicated, who hit who first ? zimmerman was on the ground being hit when he shot the kid , fear for life an limb is present i would not have let him get that close !
stanley seigler
2:03 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
@jose a jimminnes: "...zimmerman was on the ground being hit when he shot the kid...etc"
as a bleeding heart i was too quick to acept the media presentation...perhaps a second look is required...
http://amren.com/news/2012/03/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin/
[CLIP]
"The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6’2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda?
"The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
"The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
"Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
"Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin’s father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son."
[END CLIP]
not sure of the truth as reported above...in any event...shooter should have been jailed, tried and a jury decide guilt or innocence...
reg
1:48 am on Wednesday, March 28, 2012
If you got chased by a guy carrying a gun and got cornered, would you fight back? And where is his criminal record you talk about? These "numerous arrests" you just made up - any evidence? Larceny and breaking and entering, you're making up? puh-leeeze. You apparently never went to school - don't try making up stories about violence at school on the kids part. We all know which organizations are responsible for making those false claims. And btw - even if any bit of those lies was true - what would it have to do with this situation? Zimmerman was on the ground because the kid knew his life was in danger, and he fought back. That means the kid was standing his ground - same argument so many are trying to use to justify the killing. Your "scouting the hood" line clearly indicates exactly what you're trying to say here, too.
Richard Bivans
8:54 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
Having read through this article and all the comments above, I will not address Mr Stanley' Siegler's arguments as I find his entire tone to be racist.
Addressing the original question; I think the law should remain as written. People should not have to retreat when faced with an aggressor. And the use of deadly force is justified when a person is in fear of harm or loss of life if property.
Attempts to repeal this law, is a waste of our legislatures time. I will not give up MY rights to defend myself or my family.
I am not a CWP.
Linda T
10:06 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
I agree with Richard...the law should remain as written. I want to be able to defend myself, if needed, with deadly force. Each instance should be investigated individually and not decided on a knee-jerk reaction. What happed to Trayvon and his family is horrible and wish it had not occurred. Investigate Zimmerman and leave us alone. Have had a CWP but not in this state currently.
stanley seigler
1:45 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
@Richard Bivans: "...I find his entire tone to be racist."
perhaps richard bivans (RB) is tone deaf...
i would not have posted the comments to which RB refers, if i had done a more through job of vetting the source.
now i am aware the source, "American Renaissance" (AR), is a white supremacist journal...and deeply and sincerely apologize for posting AR comments...
re: I [RB] will not give up MY rights to defend myself or my family.
RB-all had these rights before the law...the law only confuses and allows some (perhaps like zimmerman) to get away with murder...
w/o the law zimmerman would be in jail now awaiting trial...ie, zimmerman now has a law to back his position.
laws existing pre "Stand Your Ground (SYG)" provided the right to defend one's self and family (called self defense)...it's almost an inalienable right...and a jury decides if it was murder, self defense, whatever...it's been the way for quite a long time...and worked as well as most in our imperfect justice system.
SYG and voterID laws are in the unnecessary and a complete waste of time category...ie, make work for legislators (legs) laws...guess legs have passed all the legislation needed to produce jobs and reduce the deficit.
reg
1:50 am on Wednesday, March 28, 2012
in what way would you give up your rights to defend? castle law won't be changed. You can still carry. You can still defend.
John H
8:58 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
Thanks to Stanley Seigler for verifying some additional information regarding the situation, proving there are three sides to every coin; the allegations made at the head, the allegations made at the tail, and the truth which can be interpreted allegorically by both.
No thanks to the sensationalist media for ignoring all of the facts, exacerbating a local tragedy (the death of a young man) into a national catastrophe (the death of reason).
No thanks to the politicians who try to capitalize on a terrible incident in another state, detracting from the local backlog of legislation affecting the state budget, education, and anticorruption.
“The truth is much more interesting than the fact… (This is my attempt at a Walt Kellyesque variant of Frank Lloyd Wright’s quote).
SGT H.
9:00 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
Why is it that the liberals first act is to call someone a racist. Facts dont matter to a liberal, neither does common sense, as long as they think theyre getting their way with something.Illegal aliens have killed over 40,000 american citizens through acts of violence or drunken driving and state this and youre called a racist. Bring up the fact zimmerman was getting beaten at the time of the shooting and here goes the racist accusations.
reg
1:56 am on Wednesday, March 28, 2012
Who made the first act of anyone calling anybody a racist in this situation? That only came after media said Zimmerman was white, and then too many conservatives (not all - just the ones who are an embarassment to conservative movement, since they use the same word on their racist materials) claimed the media was trying to make it a race war, and because they didn't list him to be Hispanic. (next thing you know, we got people typing up this 'liberals are calling us racist' line all over the internet) Thing is - you can be hispanic and white, or hispanic and black. Hispanic isn't a race, but an ethnicity. The records on Zimmerman - from his license to his birth certificate - list him as white. Another thing - if you were unarmed, got chased by a guy with a gun, and came to a point that your only choices were to die or to fight back ... what would you do? The Stand Your Ground law was in favor of Martin in this case, not Zimmerman.
Hokey Pokey
10:17 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
The section of law that Rep. Sellers wants to repeal is significantly different from how the SC Supreme Court views self-defense. The Court cited its past rulings in the recent Jason Dickey self-defense case. Note that the section of law simply allows “a person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity” to use deadly force if attacked.
But the Court requires a lot more of someone who claims self-defense:
“A person is justified in using deadly force in self-defense when:
“(1) The defendant was without fault in bringing on the difficulty;
“(2) The defendant actually believed he was in imminent danger of losing his life or sustaining serious bodily injury, or he actually was in such imminent danger;
“(3) If the defense is based upon the defendant's actual belief of imminent danger, a reasonable prudent man of ordinary firmness and courage would have entertained the same belief ; and
“(4) The defendant had no other probable means of avoiding the danger of losing his own life or sustaining serious bodily injury than to act as he did in this particular instance."
In particular, note #1 and #4.
I have a CWP and the course that I took acknowledged the Stand Your Ground law, but emphasized that you had better follow the Court’s rulings on self-defense.
Shireese Bell
12:31 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
Thank you for this post! I agree everyone should take note of numbers 1 and 4.
ReadIt
10:55 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
If you're pro-life, you shouldn't be pro-death. Carry a gun, but take the responsibility. It's not a toy. Your goal should NEVER be to take another person's life. NEVER. If you feel threatened, take action, but keep in mind that you'll have to answer to someone, be it the law or God. If the hypocritical bible belt gun slingers would think about the eternal consequences of knowingly and willingly assaulting another human with the intent of killing them, you think they'd understand why this is such a big deal and maybe rethink the extremities of Stand Your Ground. Don't get me wrong - bear arms all you want. If someone is coming after you or your family with the intent of doing malicious harm, you have every right to stop them - but the idea that praising these types of actions, especially when they result in the death of a teenager with little to no evidence, is beyond my comprehension.
And for fact's sake - "justified" homicides in Florida based on Stand Your Ground have TRIPLED since the passing of this law. So much for, you know, the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing that God said. I guess we threw that one out the window.
stanley seigler
12:54 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
@Hokey Pokey: "...a lot more of someone who claims self-defense..."
thanks for the information.
could hokey po or someone discuss the differences in the "stand your ground" (SYG) law and self-defense...from current discussions it seems the only (or major) difference is: you can claim SYG and not get arrested, and if you claim self-defense you will be arrested and tried...
BTW JB and others say SYG does not apply here...and this is the injustice. a white man was not arrested for killing (whatever the reasons) a black kid...and if tables reversed the black shooter would be in jail...
a tragic, perhaps, accident...exacerbated by a tragic miscarriage of justice...and yes motivated by racism.
Tonto
8:36 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
Ah, the desperate dems have found a new OWS. http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/24/Witness-Martin-attacked-Zimmerman
stanley seigler
1:02 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
@tonto
there are no desperate DEMs...we will talk post 2012 elections...but;
the issue here is a black child murdered...do you have any info (refs) that would help understand the injustice re the murder of this child in FL...ie NO arrest of the possible muderer...
Tonto
10:00 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
I whish this awfull thing never happened. I wish there was no cancer or other crimes or murder. I wish lynch mobs and cheap pimp politicians like Al Sharpton stirring hatred didn't exist. Lets have a fair trial before we hang the man like civilized people. Lets not use this as a cheap reelection tactic. Agreed?
Tonto
1:27 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
since I typoed i thought i would throw this in to - http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/24/10-000-reward-offered-for-US-black-teens-killer liberal justice 2012 :(
stanley seigler
7:51 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
@tonto
wish wishes worked...it will take more to wipe out racism...generations, decades, fairy dust...a sick society...
stanley seigler
8:55 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
@tonto: "Al Sharpton stirring hatred..."
tho i dont approve of the rev's tactics...he is not stirring hatred...he is stirring awareness of injustice...in this instance racism...
help me understand: just where does tonto see hatred being stirred...and against whom...does tonto believe the rev-s is stirring hatred against the honkeys...
stanley seigler
3:03 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
@tonto: Lets have a fair trial...Lets not use this as a cheap reelection tactic.
lets have an arrest...the injustice is that the shooter was not arrested at the scene...any idea why not...think racist cops maybe...
think all know in our heart of hearts if the shooter had been black and the kid white the black shooter would be in jail...or lynched...OK so not lynched, just sentenced to life or death after a "fair" trial
why is it so difficult for racist to admit they are racist...
BO has called for nationwide "soul searching" in the wake of the tragedy...very much needed if one believes this is about elections...
this NOT about elections...it's about justice...FOR ALL...to suggest this is about elections diminishes us all and makes one wonder if the if the circumstances that led to the killing of a black youth is really understood...
a clue: a white "yute" would not have been followed...
Tonto
3:43 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Ok fine Stanley. I know you will be here when the next red, yellow, brown, or black kid is murdered in this country to SCREAM racism. Great job :)
John H
12:17 am on Monday, March 26, 2012
I’m with Tonto on this one, preferring to be patient for due process of the law and how it is going to apply in this situation before an arrest is made. Innocence until proven guilty has to prevail above all else. In my estimation it has that it has taken way too long, allowing the imagination take over.
It’s nearly impossible to have an informed opinion because there is too much disinformation.
stanley seigler
1:02 am on Monday, March 26, 2012
@John H: "...I’m with Tonto"...
why am i not surprised...
the only clear cut information is: the shooter was NOT arrested...and ABSOLUTELY NO doubt, if the shooter was black and the kid white the shooter would be IN JAIL...
what is it racist DONT get the painfully obvious of the INJUSTICE of the racist cops and judicial system...
BTW tho CA (most states) has a long way to go...there is no doubt, if in CA vice SC, the white shooter would be in jail...
is SC so far behind CA (others), cal tech, ucla, stanford, etc, re social justice...
Tonto
2:29 pm on Monday, March 26, 2012
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10868250-report-police-say-evidence-indicates-trayvon-martin-attacked-zimmerman - for the lynch mob
reg
1:59 am on Wednesday, March 28, 2012
and there are dozens of others from witnesses who say police didn't record their statements accurately, even saying that the policeman told them their story was wrong and that he would write it up the way he wanted
John H
10:09 pm on Monday, March 26, 2012
To Stanley;
"the only clear cut information is: the shooter was NOT arrested...and ABSOLUTELY NO doubt, if the shooter was black and the kid white the shooter would be IN JAIL..."
If you ask me what would happen if the roles were reversed? I would say a black shooter would stand a good chance of being arrested on the spot.
Reserving the outcry for an arrest in this case doesn’t necessarily make me a racist.
If the US Justice Department finds that the shooting involved racial profiling and would not pass the self defense litmus test, then by all means, indict, arrest, prosecute, and try him for murder.
stanley seigler
12:22 am on Tuesday, March 27, 2012
@John H: "I would say a black shooter would stand a good chance of being arrested on the spot"
is there any doubt...
re: "doesn’t necessarily make me a racist."
as long as the injustice hi-lited here exist...we are all racists...including this (me) bleeding heart liberal red neck...
PS. any chance you are john dell hood with a brother gene...now dr hood?
John H
9:35 pm on Tuesday, March 27, 2012
Some of my best friends are bleeding heart liberal rednecks.
“...we are all racists...
It’s perfectly natural to be aware of those who seem different. Hopefully, fair minded people don’t act on it, resisting the tendency to develop discrimination.
I’ll be honest with you; I would show much more concern for trouble making if an ethnic kid was seen on the street after dark in my neighborhood than if he were white. It’s different when it’s personal. Objectively, though, it could just as well be the other way around.
PS. “ john dell hood” Sorry Stanley, I’m unaware of the reference. Please elucidate. Kindest regards
stanley seigler
11:25 pm on Tuesday, March 27, 2012
@John H: “... john dell hood...”
your "john h" made me wonder if you were john dell hood, the younger brother of gene hood, a classmate at sville hi (many lite years ago)...john ended up at the college i attended...havent heard fr them in many decades...
sad racism is alive and well, and not only in SC...