Could Haley Recall Effort Gain Steam with Legislation?
Several bills have been filed in the General Assembly to amend the SC Constitution to allow for the recall of elected officials as a new Recall 'Trikki Nikki' website seeks to generate public support for the move.
Editor's note: Story updated at 1:35 p.m. Jan. 9 with response from Rob Godfrey in Gov. Haley's office.
Gov. Nikki Haley racked up a long list of political enemies in her first year as South Carolina's top elected official.
Now a group of purported conservative activists have launched a new effort to recall the governor with the website recallsc.com. The site, which consists of a single page laying out the case for recalling Haley, launched in December to build public support for the effort.
But repeating recall efforts that took place last year in Michigan and Arizona — and ongoning in Wisconsin — faces a daunting uphill battle.
"I'm sure the people supporting this have passion," said College of Charleston political science professor and director of the Joseph P. Riley Center for Livable Communities Kendra Stewart.
"But it is highly unlikely that it will happen."
For starters, the state Constitution does not currently allow for a recall process, and it will require a constitutional amendment to change that. Constitutional amendments require a higher threshhold in the legislature — a two-thirds majority in both houses — than typical statutory legislation.
It also has history going against it. There have been only two successful governor recalls in history: Lynn Frazier (North Dakota) in 1921 and Gray Davis (California) in 2003. In 1988, a recall for Arizona Gov. Evan Mecham made the ballot but was stopped after Mecham was impeached.
However, if one of the several bills now filed in the General Assembly that would establish the framework for recalls were to pass it would have the necessary support to override a gubernatorial veto. The legislature's 2012 session begins Tuesday.
Then the voters of South Carolina would have to weigh in on the issue as a referndum question on a future ballot.
Haley has reportedly been on both sides of the recall issue.
Conservative South Carolina news website FitsNews.com, notably not a fan of Haley, has reported in numerous stories that during a similar effort to introduce recall legislation during 2009, after former Gov. Mark Sanford's extramarital affair came to light, Haley refused to sign on to recall legislation telling her colleagues she "didn't believe" in the concept of recalling elected officials.
Soon after taking office last year, Lt. Gov. Ken Ard became the subject of an ethics investigation due to peculiar post-election spending from his campaign account — including a dress for his wife, trips and other expenses.
With the state grand jury investigating Ard last summer, The State again asked Haley about recalls and she had a different response:
On Monday morning, Haley spokesman Rob Godfrey repeated the line when asked to comment on the recall issue: "Governor Haley supports efforts like recall legislation that empowers voters — as long as it includes all elected officials."
Meanwhile, Rep. William "Bill" Sandifer, a chief sponsor of two S.C. House bills to amend the constitution to allow for recalls says he is optimitstic that a recall bill will make it through the General Assembly this time around (the language of both bills are available here and here). There are also three recall bills filed in the S.C. Senate (here, here and here), all of which were filed in December 2010, after Haley was elected but before she took office.
Despite the challenges of making recall of elected officials possible in South Carolina, Stewart at the College of Charleston said it is more likely to happen now than at any time in the past, due to the popularity of the idea among a populace that is no fan of government and elected officials in general.
"It would be politically popular with the general public with the political climate now," she said. "So if at any time it were to happen the climate is ripe for it now."
Sandifer echoes Stewart's observation.
"The reason I introduced it is I think there is a significant amount of discontent with all elected officials," Sandifer said. "And I mean at all levels, city councils, county councils, state officials and federal."
Sandifer did not say that the bills he filed specifically target Haley, and noted that they apply to all elected officials at every level in the state. He added with the option to recall officials voters would have to opportunity to remove officials proir to their next re-election campaign.
"It gives a little more power to the electorate," Sandifer said. "It maybe makes us that serve in elected office more accountable."
Stewart said that the nature of the bills, that they would apply to all elected officials in the state, may limit the support the bills receive in the legislature.
"It would put more than the governor in the crosshairs," Stewart said. "They'd be putting their own jobs on the line and politicians usually don't do that sort of thing."
Sandifer, despite his optimism, said he knows it won't be easy to pass recall legislation.
"I don't ever delude myself into believing any piece of legislation will pass," he said. "I think it is good legilation, but it is a numbers game and the majority always wins. I hope we have the numbers."
A similar effort died in committee last summer due to a couple of factors, Sandifer said.
Last year's bill was introduced much later in the session, he said. The five bills dealing with recall have all been prefiled for the 2012 session, so the issue of timing should not be a concern this session, he said. Additionally most of the Judiciary Committee's time in 2011 was devoted to the decennial redistricting process based on the 2010 Census. That also won't be a factor in the 2012 session he said.
With the uncertainty over the potential of any of the recall bills to make it through both chambers in the General Assembly, Stewart said the Recall "Trikki Nikki" online petition, which she said seems to be coming from the conservative side of the aisle rather than from Democrats this time, may end up being more of a message to the governor that her own side of the political divide is unhappy with her performance than to result in Haley actually being recalled.
"I think the purpose of it is to send a message to the governor," Stewart said. "And it detracts from what she's trying to accomplish."
Patch.com did not receive a response from the petition organizers asking for comment on this story and we have been unable to verify who created the petition site.
According to the WHOIS directory, the site was purchased through GoDaddy.com and is registered to Domains by Proxy, a company owned by GoDaddy's founders that helps website managers protect their identities.
Oddly enough, the petition lists the Haley administration's lack of transparency first among several gripes with the governor.
Other grievances on the petition include Haley giving salary increases to her staff while campaigning on fiscal responsibility, that Haley is facing a lawsuit over potential ethics violations, the SC DHEC Board's decision on approving port deepening activities in the Savannah River, Haley using inflated jobs numbers, her removal of Darla Moore from the Board of Trustees at the University of South Carolina and Haley's adminstration destroying public records.
Theodore John Richardson
12:10 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Hope springs external. I can't think of a more deserving governor, perhaps with the exception of Walker in Wisconsin.
linda w
2:52 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
and she is no better tehn walker
SDR
3:53 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
the state Constitution does not currently allow for a recall process
Larry Carter Center
12:21 pm on Thursday, February 2, 2012
Nimrata Haley is worse than Walker. He merely defends his attacks on working families as necessary to cut the budget while Nimrata Haley vigorously condemns unions as "unwelcome." Our Governor is obsessed with cheating workers while making her rich friends richer. 9 fire fighters would be alive today had union safety equipment & union safety rules been a contract labor legal right of the victims dead under the anti-union law of this state. 843-926-1750 hire Larry FIRE BOBBY who with Nimrata Haley is wasting tax payer dollars in federal court to deny voters their rights to vote with the illegal photo voter law
Anne Bull
12:23 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
What a leftist garbage diatribe. Use your time to cover important stories like the economy and education. Haley is doing a good job for SC and many appreciate her work.
David D'Agostino
12:39 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Name would thing she's done for SC? Your last name is perfect
David D'Agostino
12:54 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Meant to say name "ONE" thing
Mimi
2:39 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
You do know Anne Bull that there are people of all political beliefs that pay taxes in the state of South Carolina so why is it that you right wing mushroom tea drinkers find it necessary to blame one party??? Nimrata has done nothing for the state of South Carolina we have one of the highest unemployments in the country, the highest college tution in the South, the highest poverty, the lowest earnings, Please tell us what Nimrata has done that is so good??? Unless your referring to here vacationing, or book selling trips or campaigning trips or her elaborate entertaining for her campaign donors all on the backs of the tax payers. We would all like to here your argument for why Nimrata should not be recalled. Just blaming someone like the media or one political party or the other is weak at best. This woman was a disaster when she was elected and continues to prove the point.
SDR
3:54 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
I like her stand against the trash sometimes called "Unions"
Tom Gallagher
12:36 pm on Thursday, January 12, 2012
What world do you wake up in - She and Zais are stealing the money for education, don't you read the papers or watch NOT FOX - Do you not hear about all the economic gamesmanship being perpertrated by Trikki and her "pay to play" Dept. heads, Commisioners and Administrators. How about the million dollars of Federal monies to be used to decide YOUR healthcare charters (I still have my fingers crossed an indictment comes with that one) Her despicable "rule" up till now has been nothing but bordering on felonious, and certainly NOT with the good of SC in mind and certainly not the people. She even endorsed Willard the rat - The biggest phony, lying, stealing, job killing D'bag of all the CLOWNDIDATES. YEA, Trikki is doing a great job - Seek help Anne, 12 step programs can save your life or maybe you just need to stop watching FOX and reading right wing websites. PS- Don't listen to Flush Limbaugh
Dr. John
9:50 pm on Friday, January 27, 2012
Mimi
(Nimrata has done nothing for the state of South Carolina we have one of the highest unemployments in the country) and
David D'Agostino (Name "one" thing she's done for SC),
Would you please join me in applauding Gov. Nikki Haley for giving us the lowest unemployment rate in SC since 2008. Way to go Nikki!!!!!
http://dew.sc.gov/palmettoconnections/?p=2546
David D'Agostino
12:38 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
I would love to see this disaster recalled!!
SDR
3:54 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
the state Constitution does not currently allow for a recall process
Laura Johnson Dickson
6:50 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Tom Gallagher, I'm so glad we have sane people who realize what's going on in SC. Awesome comment!
Cornell Davis
12:50 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Nikki Haley needs to be recalled. This woman is a liar, a fraud and a phony. I don't understand why the people of South Carolina elected her in the first place. She couldn't or wouldn't answer the tough questions doing her campaign. Especially, about her pay at a hospital, among other things. She was given a free pass and she took full advantage of it. I also blame the Democrats. There should have put forth a better candidate. A candidate that was strong and well polished, but what we got was a lying know good egomaniac, who for some reason thinks that she is "Ms. It", when she is not. The only person that Ms. Haley cares about is herself and her political career. She is a true crooked republican, who will lie and do anything to climb to the top, know matter who is standing in the way. Unless the people of this state get rid of her, things will never change for this state. What we need and deserve is someone who puts all people first before politics.
David D'Agostino
12:52 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Agreed. She is in a category with Wiscon's Walker, Florida's Scott, Ohio's Kasich and that fat ba s t ard in New Jersey
linda w
2:58 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
hey all you people that want to get a recall done for her. I SAY GITER DONE. WE IN WISCONSIN HAVE YOUR BACK AND SUPPORT YOU ALL THE WAY. PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND. IT'S LOTS OF WORK BUT IT IS WORTH IT. WALKER IS COMPLAINING THAT IT WILL COST THE TAX PAYERS TO MUCH MONEY TO DO THE RECALL, BUT IT'S ALOT CHEAPER TO GET HIM OUT THEN TO LET HIM DESTROY WHAT LITTLE IS LEFT OF THIS STATE
SDR
3:55 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
the state Constitution does not currently allow for a recall process
Dr. John
9:59 pm on Friday, January 27, 2012
Linda,
Maybe you can use the $300,000,000 budget surplus his reforms created (without destroying teachers jobs) to pay for the recall.
linda w
3:00 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
money from the koch brothers, karl rove, alec WORTHLESS
voters to take out the repubs and t-party people in 2012 PRICELESS
Laura Johnson Dickson
6:51 pm on Friday, January 20, 2012
Linda, another person who makes sense to me!!!! Love it!!!!
Lum Michael Patterson
4:02 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Mimi I agree with you about high unemployment and low earnings. But it’s not just the Governor, every member of our state government is to blame. With government knowledge and approval, many plants operating in our state use a process called outsourcing to provide their employees. Outsourcing is the use of temporary employees provide by employment agencies. The agencies pay the temps slightly better than minimum hourly wage. These temps receive $0.25/hr increases every three months. Their only benefits are group health (unaffordable for most families) and holiday pay after six months. All the while, they dangle the ‘opportunity to become company employee’ like a carrot. The reality is termination at the end of one year. Dismissal comes with the instructions to reapply after a 6-month layoff. If accepted they begin the process anew. These workers are eligible to apply for unemployment benefits during the layoff period. With a cycle of this nature operating in our state, the unemployment rate will never change. The people of SC deserve better than this. The time has come for us to put an end to philosophical bickering among ourselves, and band together to demand our representatives (Rs or Ds) enact the will of ‘we the people‘.
Mimi
5:22 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
This is true Lum Michael Patterson, the only thing I would add to that is this state has been invaded by the Republican ideology for way too long. I still believe at the moment that the Democrats are on the side of the working class and the middle class and the poor and our seniors while the Republicans are just looking for another cash cow to give to wall street to continue to play their game of sucking the life out of this country for the profits of a few.
Edrica Webb
11:02 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Hello Lum Michael Patterson. I agree entirely w/ what you're saying... I have been watching the decline of labor into temporary service's control for almost two decades now. Whether we like or agree w/ unions or not, We The People need to stop this selling off of labor into the hands of a middle-man-temp-service... it is destroying us faster than the absence of unions. Temp agencies are just an industry to skim the labors' wages as a so-called business... to save companies the expense of hiring directly. IT IS A FARCE AND SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.
I agree... let's forget what side of the aisle we're on and all work together to get rid of the middle-man wage-skimmers!
Lum Michael Patterson
12:01 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Hello Edrica Webb, Allow me to share some startling info with you about a company operating in the SC. The company is headquartered in Rueil-Malmaison, France and reported a record net income of 735 million euros in 2010. This company has several locations in SC and their labor is provided through an in-house staffing company which is headquartered in Surrey, United Kingdom and reported a net profit of $9.1 million in 2010. These foreign companies are profiting by taking advantage of the work force of this and several other states.
Early last month I contacted the governor’s office and pointed out this abomination with a promise to make sure the people of South Carolina learns about how our state officials knowingly allow companies to profit by taking advantage of the work force of our fine state. On the 22nd of last month I received a letter stating that my complaint had been reviewed and passed on to the SC Dept of Labor, Licensing and Regulation with a promise they would be contacting me soon. I am still waiting for that contact. In the meantime, I ask you and any other interested persons to make your voices heard by contacting the Governor and the SC Dept of Labor, Licensing and Regulation. Spread the word, we are not going to take it any more. One other thing don’t bother with The State, The Post and Courier, or The Greenville News they are not interested.
Mimi
4:17 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
As far as her stance and the entire Republican party against Unions is simply their plan of continue exploitation of the working class. If there wasn't a need for Unions they wouldn't exsist. The problem that the Republicans have with Unions is they prevent corporations from offering slave salaries and they stand for the rights if the worker not the profits of the shareholders. Even with the Unions income inequilty has widened were the ones at the top get 200% increase and the working class stays stagnant. This woman and her entire party has done more damage to the middle class and the poor than any terrorist could of hoped for. Stand up for yourself and your neighbor and stop contributing to this corporate take over of American being spewed by the Republican party. The Republicans must go in 2012 everyone get involved and let the voice of the 99% be heard WE AIN"T GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE. Pay your fair share.
SDR
5:05 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Unions are a throwback to a time when worker rights and safety were not codified. Now that they are, Unions are just another layer of bloated bureacracy, contributing nothing, except cash to the Democrat party......and nonsensical blog posters
Lum Michael Patterson
6:18 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Mimi you are wrong about the democrats. Take for example the frivolous legislation filed by John Richard King, Wendell Gilliard, what a waste of time and money, over a pissing contest. ALL politicians could care less about the common man and his struggles. Without the notoriety, the benefits, and a place in the history books none would seek office. In the history of the US, only12 of 43 presidents have been re-elected and if the people have any sense at all, it will be 12 of 44. Over the years, each party has had its fair chance, yet the life of the common man keeps getting worse. Our early leaders truly had the welfare of the common man in mind; however, politicians have evolved into the self-serving, show me the money, public servants (what a joke) of today. Yet most Americans actually believe one political party is better than the other, that belief that will be the downfall of this nation. Our only viable choice is to send all the incumbents home at all levels of government and to keep doing it until every career politician is jobless; because it is evident they have failed the American people.
Cold War Vet
8:25 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Unions are evil. GM and Chrysler are perfect examples. Massive pensions car companies paid out raised their costs, limiting them to build more expensive cars to get their money back. Unions wrecked the steel and textile industries and drove manufacturing jobs overseas. They're crippling the airline industry and ruining public education. Every year, the teachers’ union claim public education is dramatically underfunded. Taxpayer money pours into schools there's no improvement. The real problem with our education system is the teachers’ union. They prevent schools from firing lousy teachers or reward talented teachers. They hate the merit pay system and private schools. Government workers shouldn't be allowed to unionize, because you elect representatives to look out for your interests. The Dems and unions are to blame. Instead of looking out for your interests, They try to hire as many government workers as possible, pay them as much as possible, and give them generous benefits, all so union workers will do more to get them re-elected. People are being forced to join a union just to get a job at certain places. After they're dragooned into the union, they have to pay dues that are used for political activities which the unwilling dues-paying member may oppose. Government unions are bankrupting cities and states. They've bled billions from taxpayers nationally and the damage they're doing on the local level is even worse. Don't deny it. It's true!
stanley seigler
8:52 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
@SDR: "...worker rights and safety were not codified. Now that they are...etc"
and how is "collective bargaining" codified...without unions it would have been eliminated in WI and all states where the GOP controls the state houses...
the decline of union influence led to the 1%-99% income gap...
Mimi
5:14 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Codified you say SDR???? That is the problem of the Republicans and Nimrata is that the LAW protects working people. You know that the Republicans believe we should do away with the minimum wage. Anyone with even a small brain knows why the Republicans are on attact of the Unions because they stand between them and turning our coutry into China 2 classes of people the 1 percent with 90% of the country's wealth and the rest of us fighting over 10% picking up the tab on the losses of wall street. The Chamber of Commerce is more of a threat to our political process than any Union. And if Union determine that contributing to Democrats is the only way to protect the working class than so be it.
SDR
7:28 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Labor unions belong on the trash heap of history with its cousin, socialism.
Mimi
5:19 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
The same reason the Republicans are on attack of every single agency that is protecting the well being of the people Except of coarse our overbloated Millitary right wing socialist program. You see too many of those 1% make billions off of the millitary no questions asked, just ask Chenny about halibuton. The Republican Party is this country's biggest enemy and must be stopped by what ever mean necessary.
Tonto
8:56 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Time is comming to recall Oblamer :)
Tom Gallagher
1:52 am on Saturday, January 28, 2012
So you moron GOPTEAr's can "hire" one of the elitest CLOWNDIDATES that lie and have a great imagination, they have made up a "president" that is not Obama - All they say are lies and defamation. Take a good look at what you get - The same thinking as the 7% Piece of S**t Congress, one that was forced from the speakership in disgrace only to become a 1%er AND a lobbyist for the 1% - Then you have plastic flip flop half a BILLIONAIRE, Yea, vote for the ULTIMATE 1%er. You really NEED to be a moron to vote for any Rep. or Bagger - It is a vote against OUR country and the middle class. WAKE up and stop watching FOX and listening to Flush Limbaugh - AND - For gods sake lets do EVERYTHING in our power to GET RID of TRIKKI NIKKI - she's a fraudulent larcenist.
Dr. John
9:43 am on Saturday, January 28, 2012
Tom,
Thank you for your scholarly insight. Did you go to Harvard?
Susan Bradsky
10:12 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
I certainly cannot stand her. Another idiot with opinions and views I cannot stand, either. Take this child out of the governor's seat. She doesn't deserve it and cannot run a state. Get her out of government altogether. How could the people of this State have voted her in? She is awful!
Mimi
11:40 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Lum Michael Patterson you are right that there are people in both parties that continue to be part of the problem and not the solution, however electing people from some tea party who lack the intelligence or the ability to governor does nothing for anyone but cause more problems as is evident NOW. The only point I am making is that it seems that the ideology of the Democratic VOTERS is more in line with the working class and the middle class, The Republicans are nothing but puppetheads for corporate greed. I have noticed that every single bill to hold someone accountable is shoved under the carpet by REPUBLICANS. It is the democrats that are wanting to make it harder to outsource jobs and the Republicans fighting it every inch of the way. It is the Republicans that believe only the 1% on the top of the income pool shold be exempt from any sacrifics or paying their fair share. It is the Republicans that believe that Corporation are people and that unlimited money can be spent to BUY election usually in their favor with no regulation as to where the money is coming from like the middle east for instance. I don't say that the Democrats are implement the core beliefs of the MAJORITY of this country but they aren't blocking it either.
Lum Michael Patterson
1:11 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Mimi, you can’t convince me that one party is better than the other. As I stated earlier both had their fair share of chances and failed miserably. We the people must unite to force these politicians to do something for the citizens living at best from paycheck to paycheck, at worse from welfare allotment to welfare allotment, and at the very worse from handout to handout. Republicans want us subservient to corporations and democrats want us subservient to government. The only thing they have in common being both want the lobbyists $s. Which leads us to the crux of the problem. The time has come to exorcise that demon from controlling our elected officials. We could start by making it illegal for corporations to donate to political campaigns and by demanding that any money collected by candidates that is not used for their political campaign be turned over to the national or state treasury which ever is appropriate. Sadly, as a nation we are splintered into so many factions the idea we could show a unified front is merely a pipe dream.
Edrica Webb
11:14 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Lum, do not say our unification is a pipe dream... if we are to be unified, we must begin to believe it, speak it, support it. Our words to one another are powerful.
Lum Michael Patterson
12:07 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Edrica, my bad. I do believe we can make a difference. So let's get started. Spread the word.
Mimi
11:43 pm on Monday, January 9, 2012
Yet Cold Vet you got no problem with CEO's salaries being in the millions. Do you really think that a corporations entire payroll would not amount to the money the CEO are sucking out of it. You are a dellusional person and have no idea of what actually happens in a Corporation. I guess all those hedgefund managers that don't create anything but wealth for themselves off of other people's money and pay no taxes either are saints in your book. Stupidity runs deep in your veins my friend.
Cold War Vet
7:22 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
I never mentioned CEO salaries. But, I will agree that they'll all way too high. CEO's and the upper management of most corporations are greedy. Unions can't control the wages of CEO's. Only the stock holders and Board of Directors can control CEO wages. And so what hedgefund managers are making a boatload of money. It's the American dream and free enterprise that's making them rich, not the Reps or the Dems. Those folks are living in a world most folks can only dream about. If I had the connections and ability to make free enterprise make me rich, I'd do it too. They're wealthy and don't pay enough taxes because our tax system has too many loopholes in it. GE is a prime example. The CEO of GE is one of Obama's biggest supporters. Has your savior and idol introduced any legislation to change the tax codes so Jeffrey R. Immelt and his company pay the taxes they should be paying? Don't tell me stupid runs deep in my veins when you're suffering from 'real world dyspraxia' worshiping the most corrupt Pres. and administration in American history.
Dr. John
10:06 pm on Friday, January 27, 2012
Mimi,
You are wrong. The people who create wealth for themselves out of nothing are government workers. They cannot make a dollar until it is taken from someone else. In the market people at least have a choice in how they spend their money. With taxes that is not the case.
stanley seigler
5:06 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
@Lum Michael Patterson: "We could start by making it illegal for corporations to donate to political campaigns..."
GET MONEY OUT OF POLITICS! it's the first step to "really" taking our country back...
"Representative John Yarmuth (D-KY) and Representative Walter Jones (R-NC) introduced the most recent of these new amendments on December 20 in a show of bipartisan support. The version introduced by the two is far-reaching, and could be very effective in curbing the influence of special interests in our political sphere.
“Until we get big money out of politics, we will never be able to responsibly address the major issues facing American families – and that starts by ensuring our elections and elected officials cannot be bought by the well-off and well-connected,” Yarmouth said.
http://economyincrisis.org/content/proposed-amendment-would-get-money-out-of-politics
http://www.getmoneyout.com/about
Cold War Vet
7:23 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
@Stanley: Despite our differences. I agree with you on this one. Get money out of politics. And, let me add, get government out of business.
Lum Michael Patterson
10:47 am on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Stanley Seigler, that brings us to yet another problem facing our nation today. I’m sure you, like most Americans are familiar with the 1st amendment.
Although I realize I am far from being the sharpest knife in the drawer, I cannot understand how a majority of the United States Supreme Court justices construe the intent of this amendment as prohibiting the government from placing limits on independent spending for political purposes by corporations and unions. Are we the people no longer the government? Does the word redress not mean to impose fairness? Is it fair for corporations to be able to buy the politicians that appoint the judges who interpret the laws written by the politicians bought by the corporations? Oh, wait a minute; I forgot the corporations are people. Now we the people can sit back and relax knowing that these judges will be protecting us from ourselves for the rest of their lives.
How can we break this cycle if we can’t get past republican and democrat, black and white, rich and poor, male and female, straight and gay or any of the other groupings that keep us at war with each other and impede our ability to present a unified front against the tyranny we are subjected to by our very own elected officials?
stanley seigler
12:25 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
@Cold War Vet: "...Despite our differences. I agree with you on this one. Get money out of politics..."
COMMENT
and we need to build consensus around our agreements...not create divides with party ideologies...
so for now will not comment on roles of government and business.
the goal to get money out...might even unite the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street...
not sure if the following posted...but cant hurt to repeat:
"LA Times 2012 Political Resolutions
"For voters: Take responsibility for the condition of the country/state and the things we all need to do to reform it. Stop looking for someone to blame and start thinking about the hard work and sacrifice that will be needed to bring the state back to solvency...probably including higher taxes and fewer services.
"A vow for politicians: Gag the mouthpieces...the flacks...with their tired, sophomoric, partisan rhetoric. Require them to promote what a legislator is for, rather than spew polarizing canned crud about the other side."
Cold War Vet
12:35 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
@Stanley: Re: "A vow for politicians: Gag the mouthpieces...the flacks...with their tired, sophomoric, partisan rhetoric. Require them to promote what a legislator is for, rather than spew polarizing canned crud about the other side."
Bravo! That's the best comment I've read yet. 100% agree,
allen Miller
9:50 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
all these recalls are a bunch of Bull. They were legally voted into their positions and just because the loosers did not like the outcome, does not mean they should be able to spend my tax dollars to get a second chance. Go away and wait for the next election like everybody else. Unless of course you want to recall Obama. Now that one I could get behind.
Jerry
11:48 pm on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Where do I send a contribution?
Denise Lane Painter
1:55 am on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
I'm tired of Teflon Nikki out whoring for Romney while vets are homeless, suicide is through the roof, high school dropout rates, unemployment rates, we're either first in everything bad or last in everything good. As for labor unions, dumbasses who think unions destroyed this country need to listen to this week's episode of "This American Life". As long as there are people in China willing to work 18 hour days for a $1/hour, American businesses are going to continue to take jobs out of this country. Has nothing to do with unions & anyone who says so needs to quit smoking that stuff. My Mama worked in union and non-union shops. She was a member of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, and told me that non-union shops were dangerous, pay was less, they treated you worse, & if some guy wanted to take you in the back room & do something to you, there was nothing you could do about it. That didn't go on in union shops. When Mama got laid off, the Union brought us groceries to get by until she found another job. So before you run your mouth you ought to find out what you are talking about. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back, and it has nothing to do with unions, it has to do with CEO's like Mitt Romney who run companies caring so little about human life that they don't care that a 13 year old girl in China makes your Iphone BY HAND and will be completely disabled by the time she is 25. Recall Haley NOW before it is too late. Call your representative.
Cold War Vet
10:46 am on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
So who are you out whoring for?
SDR
11:35 am on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
All those years in government schools have paid off...for the government. Even in your own words, you can list problems caused by government solutions. You even think the union provided food for your table....It was bought with your own money!
An introductory course in logic would be the first step in rehablitating your liberal indoctrination.
Lum Michael Patterson
12:08 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
The use of profanity and name calling in an effort to get a point across to intelligent people is a waste of time. However, in your case, I understand why you used them; they are all the ammunition you have. Your reasoning, and I use the word loosely, is lacking any verifiable fact. The best thing you can do is express your opinion at the ballot box where you can remain anonymous.
stanley seigler
12:39 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
@sdr: "...An introductory course in logic would be the first step..."
COMMENT
not a bad idea for all PATCH posters and politicians...with emphasis on ad hominem logic:
[quote] An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy...In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is usually an improper argumentation in reasoning resulting in a misconception or presumption.[unquote]
@Lum Michael Patterson: "Your reasoning, and I use the word loosely, is lacking any verifiable fact."
tho anecdotal evidence is not "scientific proof", it may be verifiable fact...especially when it come from one's mother...
Lum Michael Patterson
2:42 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
stanley seigler, I do tend to over react when posters use profanity and name calling to emphasize their point. Their argument becomes even more unacceptable as fodder for thought when coupled with 'Mama Boucher' type facts. I repeat profanity, name-calling, and mama said have no place in a public forum.
Denise Lane Painter
1:56 am on Thursday, January 12, 2012
Apologies for dumbing down the rhetoric in response to most of the comments I have read here so far. As for profanity, if the editor of this forum feels that I have stepped over a particular boundary, he/she is more than welcome to edit as they see fit. As my dear husband says, language is meant to communicate & some language communicates better than others. Plus there is that pesky thing called the First Amendment which allows me, despite the fact that I am a woman AND a liberal, to have my own opinion & express it as I see fit. Name calling? I could have said "less than intelligent individuals' but dumbasses gets the point across a lot quicker. Lastly, I whore for no one - unlike Governor Haley, it would take a great deal more than $36,000 for me to lower my standards to the point where i would lie, cheat, steal & break an oath. If I endorse a candidate, it is because I believe that they are the best choice for the area they will be involved in governing. It's called making an informed decision, based upon a number of factors, none of which are the opinion of an overweight drug addict with delusions of grandeur.
SDR
2:47 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
The claim of an ad hominem response hinges on the belief that a "truth" has been presented. The liberal mind cannot distinguish between a desire and the truth.
But it can be fixed:
http://www.libertymind.com/
stanley seigler
6:47 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
@SDR: "The claim of an ad hominem [adhom] response hinges on the belief that a "truth" has been presented. The liberal mind cannot distinguish between a desire and the truth.
COMMENTs
an adhom is an adhom and hinges on nothing...personal attacks are personal attacks and are hinged on nothing...eg;
if i call you an idiot because of yo opine, "The liberal mind cannot distinguish between a desire and the truth."...this is an adhom/personal attack and certainly NOT based on belief a truth was presented...
your ref to "the liberal mind" has nothing to do with adhoms/personal attacks either...you moved the gold post from adhoms to the liberal mind...there is no connection relative to this discussion...
but since you moved the discussion, do you say: The liberal mind of A. Einstein, B. Russell, FDR, MLK (to name a few) "cannot distinguish between a desire and the truth."...really!!!
again what does "cannot distinguish between a desire and the truth" have to do with adhoms?
apologies if i have missed your point, pls advise.
stanley seigler
6:37 pm on Wednesday, January 11, 2012
@Lum Michael Patterson: "I repeat profanity, name-calling, and mama said have no place in a public forum."
i agree and hope that all will refrain from profanity and name-calling...butbutt;
quotes and anecdotal evidence (re a mother or otherwise) is acceptable in my opinion...and can add to an understanding of one's position...and in some cases strengthen one's position...eg;
"My Mama worked in union and non-union shops" gave credence to the opine unions were a positive...ie;
gave the position more credence that if i said i have no experience with unions, i just know they are evil and have destroyed our country's middle class.
Denise Lane Painter
1:55 am on Thursday, January 12, 2012
To those who claim that unions have "taken all the jobs overseas", I would like to point out that while most cars are now either made entirely overseas or assembled with parts that are all made overseas, in cheaper non-union labor markets, & many are assembled in non-union shops here in the states, it's interesting to note that prices have not dropped at all with regards to & in comparison to income. Fifteen years ago, when most American cars were made in union shops, I could purchase a small Ford for right at 5k plus tax, tag & title. Today, you can't find a new car for under $10k - domestic OR foreign.
Tom Gallagher
9:29 pm on Saturday, January 21, 2012
roughly 70% of the people polled Would love to see Trikki Recalled - Scot Walker will be leaving Wisconsin soon - YEA !! - Can you imagine if we had Unions in this state, what trikki would be doing with that - She has lawsuits pending a possible Federal indictment on the horizon (healthcare charter fraud) - A complete "pay to play" administration and on and on - Now, today, Primary election day; She backed the wrong horse (guess we know WHO was paying the best for nominations) she has roughly a 30% approval rating and now this BS about the unemployed working for minimum wage, getting counties to buy BACK their roads (honestly I need to get more info on that, what I THINK I heard can't be right) - Giving US an $83.00 a year tax cut, thats a stimulus isn't it? No good when the POTUS does it to keep us from going into a DEPRESSION - Trikki can do it though, she's the Governor of the United States. How about rehiring the teachers she fired, oh, thats right, she doesn't care about education in SC unless it's PRIVATIZED, like she is doing with WORKFORCE. She brags on her "job" creation - The problem with that is most of her boasting, these deals with these corps. were in place when sanford was Gov. Willard the phony sang her Happy B'day - Now she's "Forty and felonious, Forty and fraudulent, Forty and PHONY - so I urge you all to go to the site and sign the RECALL list - Maybe someday soon she can dance off with mitt singing a Larcenists tune. GO TO recallsc.com and SIGN today !
Jim Minkler
8:05 pm on Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Love all the comments about our anti worker Gov.But her actions say alot about this state when it comes to how past Governors have ordered state police to shot to kill union people way back in the 30s ibelieve.Or when the textile companys would kick a family out of there company homes in the middle of the night because the worker may or may not have been involved with a union .I guess we better get gun permits to protect our selves from Gov. Haley and her state police squad.What abunch of dam bastards.